Excellent and original blog. I will comeback.I wan...

2005-10-11T21:07:00.000+02:00

Excellent and original blog. I will comeback.
I wanted just to mention an interesting site regarding about Religions. With more than 500 pages, Religion News and Articles:Religion Universe: Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Taoism (Daoism) and many others

My first research, as mentioned above, concerned H...

2004-12-17T17:58:00.000+01:00

My first research, as mentioned above, concerned Hungary-Halych relations.

The conquest of Halych or preceding areas was attempted by the first crowned Hungarian king (Stephen I, early 11th century), by two kings at the turn of the 11th and 12th centuries, and later in the 12th century by king Bela The Blind (=Bela III). Before the Mongol invasion, there was a Halych succession struggle, in which Hungarian king Andrew II made several attempts at installing his son Kalman there (each lasting a few years; one of them, from 1213, started with the Halych nobles inviting him back, after they murdered the prince installed by a Slavic king who threw out Kalman last time). When Halych had a short golden age afterwards, its king Lev Danilovych had a Hungarian wife. In the 14th century, when Hungary got Angevin kings, they got control of the eastern Halych-Ladomeria areas in the same time they also got in a close relationship (later very close: dual kingdom in personal union) with Poland.

Now, most of the above listed kings also happened to be the most active at forced christianisation/catholitisation, which as usual was a bloody matter. I found several references to their activity in conquered Southern Slavic areas and against religious minorities at home. But none to such efforts in Halych.

One special mention deserves Bela The Blind, who was originally installed by the Byzantine ruler who attempted to capitalise from a succession struggle, spreading Orthodoxy Westward - however, Bela secured the support of elites in the Hungarian kingdom by turning into a catholic neophyte, he even battled the Byzantine Empire.

Another special mention deserves Andrew II. The last great nomadic tribe before the Mongols, the Cumans, who were earlier admitted to Northwestern Hungary but then evicted, had in his time a country in what is now Moldavia. Tough earlier they fought against Hungary as allies of Halych, in 1227 a leader of them converted to catholicism, and a diocese belonging under the Hungarian cardinal was established at Milko[*].

Now this points to something I should have guessed from the superficial nature of forced mass conversions, and the fact that something that is recognised as final a millenium later could have been viewed as temporary by contemporaries: the separation of Catholic and Orthodox churches wasn't a simple matter, instead separation was at first fluid, and demarcation came about in a complex and drawn-out process, as I found out when I read up on it.

In 1054, the Great Schism was between the Pope in Rome and the Greek Church at Constantinople. However, the Kyivian and lesser Eastern Slavic hierarchs continued to maintain relations with both sides, despite requests to the contrary from both.

The first stage of separation came in 1299, when the Metropolitan of Kyiv moved to Moscow, which was finalised when in 1328 he changed his title to Metropolitan of Moscow - but even before, in 1303, a new church and the position 'Metropolitan of Halych' was created, later relocated to Kyiv (with the title changing to 'Metropolitan of Kyiv-Halych and All Rus'). The two churches opposed each other.

The second stage of separation came in 1453. Until then, the Halych/Kyiv church's representatives took part in Catholic Councils, but in that year both the break of communion with Rome was adopted, and the separation of the Kyiv-Halych and Muscovite Metropoliae officially accepted by all sides.

The third stage of separation came as a result of Polish recatholisation efforts: in 1596 - a time when Polish rule reached beyond Kyiv -, in the 'Union of Brest', the Kyiv-Halych church was declared part of the Catholic church - but many believers and clergy rebelled, the Metropolitan was hunted away from Kyiv, and in 1620 the split into the Greek Catholic Uniates and the Muscovite-allied Greek Orthodox was finished when, with the help of the Cossack leader, a new Metropolitan was installed in Kyiv.

While Western Europe was devastated by the 1618-1648 Thirty Years War, Poland was decimated on a similar scale by a series of wars and civil wars dubbed 'the Deluge' (1648-1667). Thereafter, all of Central Ukraine was under Russian influence, and after the late 18th-century partition of Poland Volhynia too. As Poland before and the Habsburg Monarchy on the Galician parts thereafter, Russia too pursued politics of dismantling rival church structures and forced religious assimilation, paired with settlement.

[*] The Cumans were later crushed by the Mongols, a part of them merged with Moldavian Vlachs [Romanians], another were admitted again to Hungary and settled in its centre - where they retained a distinct culture and Asian looks until the 19th century.

Tough I did the research, I don't have much time t...

2004-12-14T17:28:00.000+01:00

Tough I did the research, I don't have much time to blog or comment in the rest of today, so just a short note here:

I found the picture is more complex. I spent some time trying to find a religious reference along a Hungarian connection - but tough I found examples of several invasions and alliances, usually by kings who also did proselityzing or forcing conversion for the Pope elsewhere, no such thing.

Then I looked the other way - and found that the entire Kyev church (not just Halych) maintained its ties with Rome after the 1054 schism. Only when Moscow became a center was there a separation, but at the same time there was a split on Ukrainian territory - and the following complex struggle also involved Russians rooting out the Catholics in Central-North Ukraine.

Hm, I have to look into this. Not that what you wr...

2004-12-14T00:50:00.000+01:00

Hm, I have to look into this. Not that what you wrote isn't convincing already, but I recall something from Hungarian history - a royal marriage or a royal alliance? - that hinted at a Catholic counterpart.

I'll correct the page when I'm done.

I don't think the Halych principality was Catholic...

2004-12-04T20:33:00.000+01:00

I don't think the Halych principality was Catholic in its days of independence. Although prince Daniel did at some point (1254) accept a royal title and a crown from the Pope (hoping it would help set up an anti-Tatar coalition), his domain remained Orthodox and he never renounced Orthodoxy. It was only in the late 16th century that Rome, Polish magnates and Jesuits started trying to convert Polish Ukraine to (Eastern-Rite) Catholicism. It took quite some time before the Uniates became the majority denomination in Halych and Volhynia.

Comments on Manic Net Preacher: Ukraine

Excellent and original blog. I will comeback.I wan...

My first research, as mentioned above, concerned H...

Tough I did the research, I don't have much time t...

Hm, I have to look into this. Not that what you wr...

I don't think the Halych principality was Catholic...